A couple pre-Saturday mailbag questions and answers:
Love the site, I have been a regular visitor for a long time; however, I am surprised, because I have yet to see a post regarding a rule that the other BCS "superconferences" have with regard to tiebreakers and advancement to a conference title game that the Big 12 does not have. Specifically, the ACC and SEC both have the additional tiebreaker rule (this excerpt was taken specifically from theacc.com, the official website of the ACC, as I'm sure you already know),
"The tied team with the highest ranking in the Bowl Championship Series Standings following the conclusion of regular season games shall be the divisional representative in the ACC Championship Game, unless the second of the tied teams is ranked within five-or-fewer places of the highest ranked tied team. In this case, the head-to-head results of the top two ranked tied teams shall determine the representative in the ACC Championship Game."
This tiebreaker rule is not among those that pertain to the Big 12, although rumor is they will add it as soon as this offseason, but if it were applied directly to the situation that faces our beloved Horns at this moment, it would not matter if the Sooners and Tech won Saturday as long as Texas take care of business later today, because Texas would be going the the Big 12 Championship Game under the circumstances of this rule. The question is why has it taken the Big 12 this long to even consider adopting a rule that the other conferences that have a championship game have already had in place for some time?--Daniel
Mack Brown was on Colin Cowherd's radio program today and raised the same point. In both the SEC and ACC, Texas would win the three-way tiebreak, as it would be bunched with OU atop the BCS Standings and have the head-to-head advantage.
Why hasn't the Big 12 adopted this rule? I haven't any idea, but the logic behind the ACC and SEC's rule makes sense. Of course, it's unclear what we should make of the logic if, say, OU finished #2 in the BCS Standings, Texas #3, and Texas Tech #7. The Red Raiders would have a head-to-head + BCS bunching argument themselves.
I'm going to wait until after Saturday's games to make any final case for Texas, as (1) the results Saturday should inform that argument and (2) the points may be moot if we don't finish with a three-way tie: A Tech loss sends Texas to Kansas City; an Oklahoma loss sends the Red Raiders.

If you can at learn something from your misfortune, that mitigates the pain at least a little. There have been multiple, long, and heated debates on BON re whether we should have a stronger OOC schedule. I have maintained we should because (1) fans paying $75 or so for a ticket deserve to see better teams than Florida Atlantic, La-Lafayette, Fla International, or UTEP and (2) SOS helps our rankings. I am not saying we have to schedule USC, Ohio State, and Florida in one year, but if we had played a couple teams like Northwestern, Tennessee, Minnesota, Ole Miss, or Pitt this year rather than UTEP and Florida Atlantic, we would be in a much better position vis a vis OU.
My questions for you are, assuming we don't make the NC game this year, being by-passed by a team we defeated, (1) do you think the BCS system will again be tweaked? and (2) will UT start trying to play a more difficult OOC schedule?
--Ron M.
I'll take your questions in order:
(1) I hadn't thought about it, but I don't know that Oklahoma surpassing Texas would lead to a tweak in the BCS formula, since the flaw here would really be with the Big 12 three-way tiebreaker rules. As mentioned in the previous question and answer, I think we'll see those change after the season.
(2) Long-time readers of BON know where I stand on this issue: I'm all for scheduling a challenging OOC schedule. With that said, if this year has proven anything, it's that there's not an insignificant amount of luck involved here. Consider:
What do we make of all that? Honestly, I think that if we're JUST focused on getting to the BCS Title game, this season may lend ammo to the "schedule soft" crowd: Yeah, if you get in a one-loss scrum you're liable to lose out, but honestly, you can't predict how strong the rest of your conference is going to be, so... it's probably better to be a guaranteed 4-0 and hope you win all your conference games. Alabama might well play for it all with one high quality win (Florida) on the docket.
Put another way: Given the paucity of unbeaten teams each year, the path of least resistance to a perfect record is probably the "smartest" move for a school like Texas.
With that said, I still favor Texas scheduling a meaningfully challenging non-conference schedule--for both the reasons you articulate. First, part of Texas' strength right now is its incredible bank account; the fans of the program who fill the coffers deserve some better bang for their buck. And second, given that, the benefits to BCS tiebreaking speak for themselves.
A final note: Texas' 2009 non-conference slate is an absolute joke. I predict we'll have this conversation many more times over the coming weeks and months.
0 recs | 30 comments
Other conferences tiebreakers
It’s probably a good thing to consider an ACC-style tiebreaker for future years, but I don’t think it should be a talking point for us this year. The rules are what they are. It’s not like we don’t have any rules whatsoever and need to look at other conferences for guidance on what to do in the absence of rules.
By the way, I stumbled upon an absolutely atrocious way to settle a tie while looking up something else tonight:
In 1973, Ohio State and Michigan both entered their season-ending showdown 10-0. OSU and Michigan tied, leaving both teams 10-0-1 without any head-to-head means to break the tie and determine who went to Pasadena. The Big Ten’s tiebreaker at the time? A secret vote of the ten conference schools’ ADs. (Ohio State won the vote, for what it’s worth.)
Hopkins Horn - November 28, 2008
Secret Vote = BCS
How is the secret vote of the Big 10 in 1973 different then what will most likely decide the Big 12 this year, a secret vote of coaches and others.
drycreek - November 28, 2008
+1 drycreek. nt whills
Bevoboy94 - November 28, 2008
i thought the votes were made public this week
sooper jeenyus - November 29, 2008
A secret vote...
You mean an anonymous poll? Seems rather familiar…
goingforthecorner - November 28, 2008
You're right about
the Big Ten secret vote. Killer there was Michigan’s PK missed about four makeable FGs that let the game end in a tie (Wolverines dominated the stats) — and Michigan lost its QB in the game and since he was going to miss the Rose Bowl, Ohio State won a 5-3 vote of the uninvolved schools.
The positive to that ludicrous vote was that the conference finally dropped its Rose Bowl-only rule and opened the field up to league members not picked for the Rose.
edsp - November 29, 2008
Speaking of Michigan's kicker missing easy ones...
…I actually found that reference while looking something up about the 1974 Michigan-OSU game, the last ten minutes I stumbled upon last night on the Big Ten Network. Talk about getting screwed.
From the info button, I knew that OSU was going to win 12-10. Michigan had the ball, drove deep into OSU territory and tried about a 35-yard FG in the last seconds for the win. My friends and I watched, knowing he’d miss, but the kick kind of went right down the middle . . . and the refs called it no good. They showed the reply a couple of times, and it still looked good, and Keith Jackson and Joe Paterno (oddly the color guy for the game) thought it was good too.
It seemed like something that MU fans would still be bitter about to this day, which led me to try and look it up. There was a YouTube of the kick, but it was yanked in the last couple of hows.
For what it’s worth…
Hopkins Horn - November 29, 2008
Its just another point to throw into the mix
Texas fans have accumulated a formidable body of evidence, and the tie-breaker rule is just extra padding. So far we have on our side:
1) Of the three teams, Texas has the closest loss.
2) Texas played the toughest schedule overall.
3) During the three-team round-robin, Texas was the only team not to have a home game, while OU was the only team not to have a road game.
4) Texas played an unprecedented 4-game stretch, while Tech and OU each benefited from a bye week during their “gauntlets.”
5) Texas won the head-to head in our de facto two-way race with OU.
and oh, by the way, in just about any other conference, Texas would have already won the tie-breaker.
Any voter who continues to favor OU in the face of all of this has justly earned a public questioning of his intellect. The problem, as I see it, is that most voters aren’t fully aware of how obvious the case for Texas is. They simply blow with the wind.
BrooklynHorn - November 28, 2008
meant to reply to kjm017
BrooklynHorn - November 28, 2008
Thanks
I’m in agreement with you, of course, that our arguments are very strong, and with that, I think we don’t need to be seen as additionally saying “we agreed to resolve tiebreakers via method A, except in the event that that particular method doesn’t work for us, in which case look to other conferences for guidance.” Just seems a bit slick to me – what I’d be expecting to hear from OU if the roles were reversed.
Hopkins Horn - November 28, 2008
BCS out
Regardless of how things turn out, this year’s horrible mess may finally generate enough pressure to finally get a playoff. That and the little nudge Barak Obama just gave us. Popular pressure, political pressure, and corporate funds drying up should finally bring this matter to critical mass.
Caradoc - November 28, 2008
Doesn't Obama want an 8 team playoff?
How is that going to help the Boise States and Ball States?
I’ve been proposing a 12 team playoff, with at least 2 of those 12 spots devoted to mid majors. If nobody wins out, then those can become at-larges if appropriate. We could also have play-in games (12 vs 13) like they do in college basketball (64 vs 65). How about a Boise State vs Utah play-in game? That would be pretty sweet and give both programs plenty of air time, with the winner actually winning something besides pride and cash.
goingforthecorner - November 28, 2008
By the way, just who in the hell are we rooting for in Stillwater?
I thought we were rooting for OSU since we don’t think Tech has a chance to pass us as conference champs.
But the announcers repeatedly said last night that Texas will be rooting for OU, albeit narrowly.
I know I’m rooting for OSU. I’m more confident than the average poster on BON that we might be able to hold on to #2 if OU wins (but not in blowout fashion), but I’d much rather take my chances with what happens after an OSU win than trusting the humans to come to their senses after any type of OU win that doesn’t involve at least 10 turnovers.
Hopkins Horn - November 28, 2008
rooting for OSU...
I think that i’ll be rooting for OSU tomorrow for the following reasons:
1) An OSU victory would send Tech to the Big XII Championship Game, and regardless of the outcome, I believe that a Tech victory over Mizzou would not vault them over Texas in the BCS rankings. The national media and voters just don’t have enough respect for Tech historically to give them the #2 spot in the BCS even with a conference championship. In this respect, the blowout win by OU over Tech works in our favor.
2) A strong performace by OSU, even coupled with an OU win would validate our close victory over OSU and would give the voters some pause when considering voting OU ahead of Texas in the polls. I think that OU has to look convincing tomorrow to vault Texas.
brownf - November 29, 2008
Absolutely
No question at all in this one: Texas wants OSU to win outright or at least to make a game of it.
Peter Bean - November 29, 2008
you think the guys at ESPN know what they're talking about?
Trust yourself. You know the situation much better than those clowns. We’ve all been studying the scenarios here inside out and hypothetical till next Tuesday. Those guys are spouting CW talking points. Especially the guy with the hair who kept saying, “yeah but what about style points?” while Craig James was actually trying to make sense. If you want to understand something about college football, do not listen to the announcers on ESPN. Read the posts and comments at BON.
On an emotional level, I started rooting for OSU weeks ago. Because I can’t bear the thought of OU squeaking by us this year. I found myself rooting for Texas tech (in futility) in the first quarter of the TT-OU game even though everybody said I should be rooting for OU. But I realized…I could handle Tech getting past us for the Big 12 title, but not OU.
rezboscace - November 29, 2008
ESPN
I take everything they say with a grain of salt. Ever since the month long circle jerk of USC and how they rated against the greatest college teams of all time prior to the Rose Bowl game against us. This year I actually liked it more when nobody was talking about Texas. USC this. OU that. Very little about Texas other than going over their game then it was about Florida or Ohio State. Right now I think they’re being pretty fair and Tech’s destruction helps a lot. Harrell is rarely ever mentioned and Colt is getting a ton of word of mouth.
seth78 - November 29, 2008
Rooting for OSU here...
Almost as hard as I’m rooting for Baylor… how great would it be to render the Bedlam game meaningless, other than pride? Don’t think Baylor has the firepower this year, but who knows where Tech’s heads will be.
crackaTX - November 29, 2008
Bedlam
could play a role even if Baylor beats Tech. OU winning would most likely put them into the Fiesta if Texas were to go on to beat Missouri or the national title if Texas lost. I will still be rooting hard for Baylor and OSU no matter what. I’d kill to see OU on the outside looking in.
seth78 - November 29, 2008
go boone pickens u.
if tech beats baylor, let them freeze in kc. ou would be out with a loss and it would take a hell of a win for tech to climb back over us. we can stay cozy in the two spot and skip the cash-grab conference championship game.
zissou - November 29, 2008
I'll second that
Plus it’ll give our guys more time to rest up and heal instead of risking injury just prior to the big game.
seth78 - November 29, 2008
Common Opponents
I am tired of this idea that OU has been more impressive in common opponent games. OU scores alot of points, but MOV is what matters. Should OU win today by a larger margin than we beat OSU, the common opponent tally, when using point differential, would stand even. Texas wins head-to-head, Aggie, and KU; OU wins Tech, Baylor and (hypothetically) OSU.
OperaHorn - November 29, 2008
what is MOV?
and while I’m asking questions, what is the M in front of NC when talking about national championship?
Horndogger - November 29, 2008
MOV = Margin of Victory
M = Mythical
OperaHorn - November 29, 2008
So...
Would any of you have a problem if a team that beat you and went on to win the CCG didn’t get to play for the national championship…but your Horns did?
Brandon Bibb - November 29, 2008
I'm probably in the minority around here
but I think it would be kind of unjust if Tech wins the conference and Texas makes the Natl Championship.
But n the event of the 3-way, I can envision lots of unjust outcomes. If the Horns end up reaping the benefit of a bad system, I won’t complain.
rezboscace - November 29, 2008
Why would it be unjust?
Why would winning the Big 12 mean much if the championship game didn’t even include OU or Texas. Should we really vault Tech over us because they would’ve beaten a Mizzou team that we trampled?
goingforthecorner - November 29, 2008
Face it....
….if Missouri was all that good, they wouldn’t have lost to Kansas.
They beat an 8-4 Nebraska team and then a bunch of .500 ( or less ) teams.
Even that season opening victory over 5-7 Illinois doesn’t look like much now, does it?
HornChamps - November 29, 2008
After tomorrow...
you may need to change your signature.
BrooklynHorn - November 30, 2008
"What were they (USC) supposed to do...
…Schedule Ohio State and Michigan?" Or Ohio State and Tennessee?AUBURN? LSU
?!?!?Point taken.
duras - November 30, 2008
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