Burnt Orange Nation

Flashback to the '90s

Back then when I was at Texas, watching the top flight talent go to FSU was a yearly proposition. It still hurts.

TexasGarcia37 - January 19, 2012 reply

Manny did one great job recruiting him. To even get into the game at that late hour was very impressive.

Good luck Mario

Would have been fun, but we will be OK………Hook ’Em

Inveigled&Foozled - January 19, 2012 reply

Bummer

I still have a built-in bias against all things Florida St. (and Florida and Miami as well) because of their constant poaching back in the 80’s and 90’s. Just hate losing any quality players from Texas to that team and that state.

douglaskoehne - January 19, 2012 reply

That and ...

so many of their players were dirtbags back in the day. I refer to that state as the Forida Penal League. Just my own personal bias against the Floridiots …

Kudos to the coaches

Very pleased that the coaches are working hard to find the right players and did not worry about the fact that he was a verbal. Same for the Cali TE. I commend the effort. On the other hand, I feel a little played by Mario. Going from Horns are his top school, to eliminated in a short period of time when combined with his LSU visit, strike me as someone either enjoying the spotlight or picking Diaz brain for free. Understand that is sometimes what is required to have a chance with a top recruit and also that he is only 17 or 18. However, that does not mean I have to like the way he handled it. We all wanted to really believe the hype, but he did stoke the fire. We can only hope his interest was genuine
Thanks again to the coaches for the effort to get it close.

everything horns - January 19, 2012 reply

Still don't understand

Why he reaffirms FSU, but plans to visit LSU? Especially this late in the process.

He's recruiting for us...

Kris4153 - January 19, 2012 reply

With all your inside info

Want to tell who he is recruiting at LSU? Maybe Collins? They both seem to follow the same game plan.

LSU and Collins

I completely forgot Collins said Bama, but Momma said LSU. Another soap that we wait to play out.

Free trips, different women. Basically getting the royal treatment, why not take it?

goatnole76 - January 19, 2012 reply

I hate to be that guy...

…but I told y’all it wouldn’t happen. He is all FSU like I said in the last thread and everyone got upset and said I was trolling. Too bad “6th street” isn’t here to apologize and admit defeat… Oh well. Good luck Texas, bc FSU is on the rise!

Go Noles

Kris4153 - January 19, 2012 reply

Maybe u weren't trolling than...

You are definately trolling now. Now beat it kid youre botherin me.

dukeoforange - January 19, 2012 via mobile reply

wasnt FSU supposed to be on the rise in 2011 too?

horns1025 - January 19, 2012 reply

Yeah. And then they lost 3 oline starters and their top 3 oline backups and their QB got all busted up and it all was a mess. Defense was dominant though.

It was a necessary retort

To an asshole post. Obviously not all FSU fans are as classy as you, Bud. You should know that.

I dont appreciate being called an "asshole" for just posting information that was true.

You all are very soft around here and need to learn how to differentiate between “attacks” and “facts”. That’s all I’m going to say.

Kris4153 - January 19, 2012 reply

If you have such an issue.

Leave, and don’t let the door hit your behind on the way out.

Um...

He didn’t call you anything, the term referred to your post. Talk about thin skinned…

utexas87 - January 19, 2012 reply

You are very soft.

It was a fact, not an attack.

burnt40 - January 19, 2012 reply

FSU is on the rise

To another 8-4 disappointing season

armsch - January 19, 2012 via iPhone app reply

I believe I said

It was an asshole post. You should learn to “differentiate” between what somebody posts and what you decide their post means. Regardless of how you took it, it was an asshole move to come over and gloat.

man recruiting news has been all bad the last 24 hours

first rumors that DGB eliminates Texas now Mario Edwards really eliminates Texas. oh well still an amazing class that will win a National Championship and good showing by the new staff to even get us into the game with both of them. 6 months ago i wouldnt have given us half a shot in hell with either of them

horns1025 - January 19, 2012 reply

Texas still has an excellent class. One of only three programs with 75% of its non-kicker HS commitments rated as four-stars or better by the major services.

Look for an article on this soon.

get used to it

This is what happens when you put your ball on the line. Occasionally, they cut crushed. They will win some and lose some, probably lose more than they win over time. I just hope they continue to do it.

codaxx - January 19, 2012 reply

Getting used to it

Some of It, is still the fallout of 2010. But I like the new direction.

This.

The problem with going after OOS and highly ranked prospects is that the miss rate is going to be higher. The point is that the staff is putting in the effort. Eventually we’ll start landing more of these guys, but the miss rate will still be “high” because of the nature of that type of recruitment.

Agreed on eventually

I think the coaching staff is doing very well with recruiting, just imagine what it can do after a return to a BCS bowl.

Sasha,

Great to see you roaming these parts of the interwebs.

-BurntOrangeJuice from Barking Carnival

PS: I love that the staff has started taking some chances on some low percentage, but high reward guys. The new culture of UT coaching is exciting.

I wasn't aware you were BOJ on Barking Carnival and Cosm

Nice.

Damn, now everyone knows I have a split personality disorder.

With BC coming over to SBN, I’m not sure which name to go with.

What up?

Still sore?

Paleface Horn - January 19, 2012 reply

Only in places.

I wonder how many interpretations of that question have taken place without the context of my activities last Sunday.

That's what I was hoping for.

Paleface Horn - January 20, 2012 reply

We're going to need a dictionary mapping names on FanTake to names on SBNation.

In case you didn’t know, I’m ScipioTex, Sailor Ripley, Vasherized, and Huckleberry on BarkingCarnival.

Dang, I would have taken you for Mona

my bad

That's just on my good days.

I’m Aggie Rick when I’ve had a rough day at work.

srr50?

Sad you left that name out

STLaw - January 19, 2012 reply

I would kill (maybe) to know who is really behind Aggie Rick.

Well played sir

Since you didn't claim LonghornScott,

I’m LonghornScott, as well as BOJ. I just play X’s and O’s dumb when I post over here.

burntorangehorn - January 19, 2012 reply

No kidding

I’m Ransom Stoddard.

Optimistic here, pessimistic there.

kriess - January 19, 2012 reply

yea i know that

im not wallowing in sorrow over it. either way we got a top 3 class

horns1025 - January 19, 2012 reply

meh, oh well.

onto the next “greatest kid ever”….it sucks, but we will be fine. if i could pick only one of edwards/davis/DGB it would most certainly be DGB, even though thats a long shot as well.

HOOK EM

starshorns - January 19, 2012 reply

Yep, spirits will soon forget this episode, and turn to the next shiny new object

In this case, the mountain-troll-esque lineman:

I heard Maulerson once narfled a garthok

Ese-De-SA - January 19, 2012 reply

who is that a picture of?

cade21 - January 19, 2012 reply

A big ugly with the strength to smash two men's skills together and the brutish mentality to want to do it

The other is a troll in a Lord of the Rings movie.

does the big ugly have a name?

cade21 - January 20, 2012 reply

never mind, figured it out

cade21 - January 20, 2012 reply

Trolls don't know

About the curse of M. Brown. Just let’em enjoy their day.

MEj does not qualify for the MB curse

He is simply a guy we pursued that isn’t going to sign with us. He didn’t jerk us around or decommit from us. This is a far cry from Ryan P. or Emmuel Moody.

Yeah, no curse on MEJ or DGB

They both handled their recruitment appropriately, although I’m not sure why MEJ would visit LSU and if I were LSU I’d tell him to de-commit or not visit. That’s just tacky re-affirming a commit and then asking for a free trip imo.

Wrangler86 - January 19, 2012 reply

I understand MEJ not qualifing

Just giving the troll something to think about.

Not bien!

I thought we really had a chance but Malcom Brown looking like an absolute monster softens the blow a little for me. We will be fine. Good luck to MEJ.

PineypointG - January 19, 2012 reply

Bien Franglais

You guys can’t complain with the beastly recruiting classes you always get (and always pulling top-tier d-linemen). Besides, it could be worse, you could be SMU losing all of your recruits to….. Washington State.

JaviLouis - January 19, 2012 reply

I like to think it’s the Pirate is trying to settle a grudge with CJ, but more likely the fact that the ASU/June Jones debacle reopened recruitment for most of the commits. Given ML’s short time at the helm he needs to recruit players fast and these guys are the most eligible.

SDG - January 19, 2012 reply

Man I wish Mack and Co. would just wrap up the recruiting right now.

Just pull a Gene Hackman on Hoosiers and say this is my team when you only have 4 players on the court. It sounds like we just want #’s (Hobbs)

So you don't have any interest in DBG or Daje Johnson?

Really! SMH

I would love to land DGB, I’ll take DJ as well, but there comes a time when you gotta wrap it up, like the Chapelle show.

burntorangehorn - January 19, 2012 reply

Recruiting doesn't wrap up until NSD at earliest

And even then, NSD is just the earliest date a guy can officially commit.

So would you rather save some #'s for next yr or just burn through the #'s to have a big class?

I'd rather go all out for kids we want than throw in the towl early in the 4th quarter.

I hear you Boss, I just want us to quality not quantity.

I would like to save some room for next yr.

I agree with you in terms of just trying to get numbers

But there sure seem to be at least a few big fish out there.

LonghorninRaiderland - January 19, 2012 reply

Never really excpected a commit anyway.

Kinda like DGB…not holding on to hope. Would love to see him in burnt orange but feel like the chances are slim to none.

I feel duped by all that Cigar I was buying

This is why I hate the percentages

they were throwing around.

I was buyin what they were sellin, shit I was on cloud 9

It was feeling like 2002

I hope they own up a bit.

They provide great information, but I hate the argument that goes like this:

Us: well you said it was 80% chance he signs!
Them: well, there was still that 20%!

No more percentages please! There’s no accountability!

Bingo

Not to sound harsh

But if you want guarantees, you might just want to start following recruiting after the class has signed each February. Those guys post the %’s because the majority of their readers ask for them.

I don’t have a dog in the fight (although I personally like the ’s), but have been following recruiting long enough to know that almost every situation is fluid. Almost every year there have been certain kids that were 80-90 in favor of us one week and then changed their mind the next week. There are also kids that have completely eliminated us that end up signing with us (Vince Young for example). It’s just the way it is. Notice that they now have backed off the high %’s.

Nah I get what you're saying.

But if the majority of readers asked for a poop sandwhich, I would hope established and reputable writers (because they are) would say that’s not how we do business.

And the fluidity is EXACTLY my point, so thanks for saying that. I think it’s waaaaay to fluid to even ASK for percentages, at least in my uninformed opinion.

I take the opinions as where they are likely to sign at that given moment.

I do the same.

Percentages can change. I think that is what happened here. Just because the kid is leaning way towards one school one week does not mean that won’t change the next. Not giving percentages won’t change how fickle, or easily influenced, some kids are.

Also, I kinda get the feeling he didn’t want an official visit from Mack because he was didn’t want to be even more confused. This seems like a self-preservation move by MEj, and I can’t say I blame him. At this point, I’m sure he just wants clarity and direction instead of feeling even more torn.

i think it's funny

that people lament the fact that the kids are the ones that get torn and easily influenced when we’re the ones that get our noses bent out of shape based on reports from people trying to hock subscription services.

Who's lamenting?

Pointing out a fact is not lamenting. These are 18 year old kids trying to decide where they are going to spend the next 4 – 5 years of their life. Some of them are going to be indecisive, and some are going to be easily swayed (by people, by visits, other recruits). The percentage of their likelihood to commit to a school changing from week to week is not unexpected. That was my point.

first off

not everything is a shot at you.

i understand what your point was. plenty of people, myself included..you included, get wrapped up in percentages or tidbits or nuggets or whatever. that’s what following recruiting is like. for us to act like we don’t bend to whims of the kids is pretty funny to me. it ain’t that different.

Chill, dude.

Be more clear in your posts. I wasn’t taking it as a shot. It was a legitimate question based on the implication in your post.

And also, don’t imply that I take “everything” as a shot based on one post you misunderstood. If you’re familiar with my posts elsewhere, then you’d know that certainly isn’t the case. Unless you’re calling me names, using emoticons, or throwing around excessive exclamation points, I read every post as being spoken in a calm voice. As you should read this one.

But glad we agree in the end re: percentages.

lamenting

in the sense of whatever that means for us recruiting junkies. it wasn’t meant to say you’re running around with your pants on fire like you’re mysterious package @ bc.

honestly after your scrap w/ whoever that was the other day at bc i figured you might’ve been on edge towards whoever you felt had a swipe at you. mostly dumb on my part and apologies for coming off dickish.

mattw you’re a good guy, come on over to the recruiting threads anytime. keep dropping knowledge over here.

No Prob & Sorry...

if I came off as being easily offended. Honestly wasn’t trying to come off as such, so I’ll watch how I word things.

And yes. That little fracas was ridiculous. I just stopped commenting back because 1) that poster had no ability to recognize the utter hypocrisy of everything she was posting, and 2) it would have been fruitless to point out all of her logical fallacies due to the self-delusion that was happening. It would have been like arguing with an aggie.

Percentages - nothing more than opinion

In the medical field we gauge pain on a scale of one to ten – ten being the worst pain, etc. That scale changes as well as the % scale.

All JS and TS were doing was offering opinions utilizing a percentage scale. I see no problem with it and, in fact, I find it to be very useful.

Chill out on the complaints!

Snide Aside - January 19, 2012 reply

Sasha - I saw that little debate

And I think her problem stemmed from envy.

Snide Aside - January 20, 2012 reply

Percentages

I see nothing wrong with the percentages. Everyone wants to know what’s going on inside these high-profile recruits’ heads, and these writers have more knowledge of that. Every recruiting site will talk about a recruit being a “Texas lean” or “a Texas lock” or “a longshot” or whatever other terminology that indicates how likely it is that we get him. The percentages just quantify that. Because the statements “DBG is a Texas lean”, “DGB is 55%”, and “DBG is 85%” clearly do not all convey the same message. The percentages are just a convenient way to convey a more precise message.

I think of it like a weather forecast. If the news tells me 80% chance of rain tomorrow, I might grab an umbrella when I leave the house in the morning. If it doesn’t pour on me, I’m not going to call up the TV station and chew their ear off that evening though. It’s a prediction. Predicting the future (whether the unpredictability of weather or young kids) is never an exact science.

If people take these percentages as Gospel truth, that’s kind of silly. If I read 70% from the Cosm (I guess IT now) boys, there’s still almost a 1 in 3 chance the kid doesn’t pick us, and there’s probably a 50/50 chance the prediction is off by 20 to 30 points to begin with. Again, not an exact science, but I personally support the percentages. They are much more informative than reading “he’s a Texas lean”.

That's the problem though.

At some point, DGB was at some time or other either 55%, 85%, 0%, etc. Its too see-saw for percentages to be used. Just stick with the “Texas lean”, “verbal”, “longshot”, etc.

40A - January 20, 2012 reply

That doesn't make it any better

In that case he would have gone from a “coin flip” (55%) to a “Texas lean” (85%) to a “he’s not coming guys” (0%). It has the same effect. The percentages just map those words to numbers. For us engineers of the world, numbers are always preferable to words!!

Well agree to disagree.

I’ll take the words, simply because people don’t take the words “coin-flip”, “Texas-lean”, etc and affiliate them with the same percentages you do. Some see 55% as a Texas lean, some see 85% as a lock, etc.

40A - January 20, 2012 reply

Aha!

So if everyone just thought like me, the system would be flawless! I kid. I kid.

Well really what I interpret out of that then is that you prefer words because they lead to ambiguity. “coin flip” or “lean” can mean pretty different things to different people. While I can see the argument that ambiguity is appropriate in this situation because of the fact that you are predicting unpredictable events (isn’t that there the crux of the problem?), the engineer in me (there he is again) wants to eliminate ambiguity and make everything well-defined, so we’re all on the same page.

But yes, I agree that we can rationally and respectfully go on disagreeing on this one. But arguments have plenty of merit in my eyes. It’s more a matter of personal preference than anything else to me.

Poop sandwhich??

BeeCaveHornFan - January 20, 2012 via mobile reply

Sure, but those who take those reports for gospel will still clamor for %age

Daje Johnson

Sounds like a very, very nice consolation prize. The kid plays both ways, is open to playing either way because he loves them both, he is blazing fast, and has good hands. He can also play special teams and I’m not crazy with Diggs as a punt returner. I like the get and I’m just fine. I never really expected DGB or MEJ, and I’m glad neither is looking like a commit to a Big XII team so what do I care?

Wrangler86 - January 19, 2012 reply

I actually liked Quandre as a punt returner.

He was much better than Jaxon Shipley, partly because Diggs has a better ability to make a guy miss, which is crucial on punt returns. I could definitely see a guy like Johnson beating him out, but I think Diggs could stay there for a while.

Definitely agree about liking Johnson as a possible pick up, though.

How can you now like Diggs as the punt returner?

I thought he did a terrific job.

Unless you maybe would rather it go to a less valuable, non-every down player.

As confirmation,

even taking out the 80-yarder against A&M (I think it may have been 81 officially), Diggs still averaged 12.5 yards per punt return, more than twice the 5.25 yards that Shipley averaged before his knee injury, on exactly the same number of attempts, no less. Now, I love me some Jaxon Shipley, but he just didn’t show much dynamic ability as a punt returner. Diggs did.

Hopefully

Quandre can become a better punt returner with the experience in his back pocket. Same with Jaxson.

Considering they are Freshmen

I give a hat tip to both on the punt returns (and obviously the field too). If you threw me out there at 18 I would have chit a burnt orange brick. Both are fantastic.

Yep.

It would be game over for me as well.

What are the areas you see him needing to improve on?

I guess he made a couple of bad decisions on fielding vs. not fielding in certain areas of the field? I can’t remember him muffing one.

Quandre?

A bit on when to field and when not, following blocking better. But he definitely improved at the end of the year, I’m probably being a nit picky because we had true frosh returning punts.

After Aaron Williams’ fumble last year (i’m sure you know what i’m talking about), I’ve been super particular about who’s back there.

The return against A&M and the last couple against KSU

probably blinded me to the issues he had earlier in the year.

Between AW and the other PRers...

That’s might have been the worst PR effort overr a season I’ve ever seen at a quality program.fumbles, muffs, bobbles, lost yards…it was really awful.

i would have to agree

every time we set up for a punt return I had a nagging feeling that we were going to muff it. especially after we just had a big defensive stop or momentum swing

jlhotze - January 20, 2012 reply

If we threw you out there at 18?

If you threw me out there at 18, 23, 29, 31, 46, 59, it doesn’t matter what age. I would still chit a burnt orange brick!

Edwards

My take, the guy is a DT waiting to happen. That’s real. The guy is 300 lbs already, and he isn’t even out of high school.

We need some DE’s IMO. Not sure why we never went after Fields… it’s kind of sad that we are looking at DE’s and TE’s and we didn’t even show any interest in two solid players at those positions during recruiting (TE Griffin Gilbert, DE Devonte Fields.)

Gilbert would have been a challenge after what the fanbase did to his brother. Fields though? Come on.

That said,

I’m glad we went after ME

Gilbert was offered a grayshirt, for what that's worth.

As for Fields, he remains a mystery. Not even people I’ve spoken with at the services seem to have much of a handle on that one.

Grayshirt

is pathetic, given the talent that Griffin has as a TE prospect.

Though, I would expect that Griffin and McFarland are about the same in terms of talent. Just a few salads away from being a slow WR.

Fields has some fantastic size for a true DE and would fill a need, at a position of need in the next few years.

Like McFarland better

since he actually has the size to be an in-line guy, which is what Texas really needs. Harsin could have used Gilbert, but considering that Griffin is around 200 pounds and has been for a while, he doesn’t have the ability to add the weight needed to be a pure tight end. Texas already has a tweener in Darius Terrell and a couple of big wide receivers, so Gilbert just wasn’t really a need.

Griffin looks like the flex TE that we are getting away from

Griffin looks like a slow white guy

Who was offered as a favor to the Gilbert family.

CMDR - January 20, 2012 reply

LOL

Some “favor”… a grayshirt for a rivals.com top 10 TE that is a 4* talent. More like a slap to the face to be perfectly honest.

Either way, I am happy with McFarland and consider the two to be about the same at this point. I would be surprised if the Gilbert family would ever let another kid step foot on the UT campus after the way GG was treated on the 40 acres.

I agree with you about the Gilbert family

But you sure can’t say GG wasn’t given every opportunity to succeed!

Snide Aside - January 20, 2012 reply

He was

given his chance for sure.

Jeff Howe

Said he wasn’t interested in UT at all.

Really depends on your scheme. But if you get MEjr, you make your scheme work around him, because he can play end in the right system, and that system with him in it would be a huge headache for opposing offenses.

He was told by our DC that he would primarily play DT for us

Maybe in the end, that and our current depth chart at DT (with Moore and M. Brown coming in) swayed him? Just speculating here.

Jimbo told him he would be a DE. FSU wants big defensive ends, because that’s what LSU won the NC with in the early part of the decade (LSU had four defensive ends of 290+ in a 4-3 defense). And FSU currently plays one DE of a listed 278 and one of 270+. They also redshirted a DE who will be 280+ next year.

There’s a significant relationship between defensive front seven size and defensive success.

I get what you are saying

But I keep going back to the fact that he is already 296 lbs as a highschool Sr. – 20+ pounds heavier than the (college) FSU DE’s you are citing as examples. There is almost no chance that he gets into a college S&C program and stays under 300 lbs. 310 is not out of the question.

He has significant babyfat to lose. Saw him in person last week.

I understand that

but will the fat weight he (potentially) loses, be more than the muscle weight he gains? And will he be willing to put in the work to lose that much fat weight if his NFL future is at DT where being over 300 won’t be an issue?

This reminds me of the debates we had regarding Chris Whaley, where people were convinced he’d lose weight while he was in college.

Muscle is heavier than fat

last time I checked.

I think with him, he’s been lifting and training so long, his muscular potential is not as great as a typical Fla prospect who doesn’t touch a weight until jr year and doesn’t have adequate protein to make a difference because of economic situation.

Not sure what happened here

Was going to pose the question as to whether he will have the motivation to lose that fat weight knowing that he’s a DT in the NFL.

I still have my doubts he can stay under 300lbs. but if he keeps his speed I guess it really doesn’t matter.

This debate reminds me of the people who were sure that Chris Whaley would lose weight when he got to college. We’ll see.

I think he ends up at 5-tech in the NFL (DE in a 3-4).

With his pass-rush ability?

That would be a waste of talent.

shift inside on passing downs, perhaps? Many 3-4 teams go 4-down in pass-rush situations.

Perhaps,

but majority of 3-4 DEs are run stoppers, depending on the system. I personally think he should drop some weight and become a prototypical DE, and if he has the athletic ability it looks like, eventually become a D Ware type of player.

Absolutely agree

A five-tech with that skill set is like a TE with Manning’s passing skills. Edwards could be Kevin Williams or better as a three-tech.

That's what we said about

Cotton and Bible.

Never Rule Out the Freak

Paradigms are made to be broken. AS-J was too big for TE? BS – he is a freak that looked just fine as a frosh TE. Mario too heavy for DE? I saw a clip of him chasing Barret at the cosm – he may be the fastest 300 pounder coming out of HS in quite awhile.

If he is determined to play end, then he’ll drop the weight he put on at the end of the season. He was heavy at Under Armour AND still looked great.

He is Just Big Boned (like me)

I didn't think much of those DEs in the 43

Spears did pretty well, but Tyson Jackson was an overrated schlub. I almost hurled when KC drafted that third-round talent in the first. Granted, being drafted early is awesome, but Jackson and co weren’t exactly stars at LSU. Guys like Dorsey were.

I think

Edwards was never really interested in Texas. Dad has been preparing him for Tallahasse for 18 years now. Kid has enough talent to not really worry about compettition… perhaps they are blowing sunshine up his butt by telling him he’s a DE. That’s just not reality though…

Really depends on your scheme. But if you get MEjr, you make your scheme work around him, because he can play end in the right system, and that system with him in it would be a huge headache for opposing offenses.

He will find

that he won’t be able to bullrush OT’s in college like he did in high school. Maybe in the ACC, with the lack of talent across the board in that conference, he can be a DE.

Mark it… unless he slows the growth that his body seems to naturally be going through and maintains what speed he does have, by his Jr. season he will be at the position that he will play in the NFL… which is DT.

ACC talent isn’t less than the Big IX. Check out the draft.

This is crazy talk, sorry. You play this kid in a five-shade and there’s not a problem. Nobody thinks he’s going to be a 9.

Maybe in the ACC, with the lack of talent across the board in that conference, he can be a DE.

…ummmm, maybe coaching, but not talent. clemson and fsu are not in the SEC but recruit like SEC teams because of the shared natural (fertile) recruiting areas. ACC is only behind the SEC for putting out the most pro’s….

I apologize,

but the ACC is a friggin joke. Texas has more players in the NFL than any school in the nation.

I base my opinion on the fact that the ACC can’t even sniff a championship team since the late 90’s. Didn’t Clemson just give up 70+ points to a Big Least school from West Virginia?

It’s just not a good football conference, period. Stick to basketball.

ACC

I think ACC has 2nd most NFL players. Talent is not the problem. FSU, Clem, and UNC put couple DL to the NFL every yr. Coaching is just horrible. How else do you explain a team with the 3-4th best talent owning the league.

codaxx - January 19, 2012 reply

I base my opinion on the fact that the ACC can’t even sniff a championship team since the late 90’s.

Slightly later..
This brought to you by FSU and the 2000 National Champions and a 2001 National Title game appearance.

And the ACC may be a joke, but it’s not because of talent….just letting you know that there is lots of talent in the ACC it just usually gets wasted.

Especially at UNC and Clemson

For whatever reasons it may be there in the first place.

Def coaching

and if not for NCAA investigations I believe UNC would have @least made a bcs bowl, and possible national title with all of the talent that they had a few years ago

az5950 - January 19, 2012 reply

umm..chupita

he’ll be able to do whatever he wants in college. he’s a jumbo freak athlete. he’ll push around who he wants. he’ll stuff who he wants. he is good enough to fit into whatever scheme we want to play. and we were willing to show him all the ways and it got us into a recruiting battle late that we really had no business being in.

What?

Talk about large expectations. 5 stars never fail, so that works though.

yea you're right

5 stars don’t have a higher hit rate than all the other stars…and have less of a chance of being good, dominant, or making it to the nfl.

we can try to make ourselves feel better by talking about 5 star busts or 3 star wunderkinds…the tenor of this thread would be completely different had we landed him.

Of course it would. But is that the issue here?

No, the issue is you think this guy is gonna go into college football and dominate. We’ll see on that.

What point are you trying to prove here?

that it's silly.

to try and devalue a guy because we didn’t get him.

I'm trying to find

where MEj has been devalued. I think you value him too much.

is versatility

something that counts when evaluating how good a player is or not?

We don't know if he has that versatility.

And it’s a bad idea to assume he is, when conventional wisdom and history says 300 lb line prospects don’t project as DEs.

ehhhh...

i think it’s starting to trend away from the conventional wisdom b/c of hybrid fronts and how creative a lot of dc’s are getting wrt how they’re making sure their best players are on the field in the right situations regardless of size or position or anything else.

for instance, there was some talk about manny showing MEJ some stuff where he’d drop into some fire zone style coverages. why would he should him stuff like that if he wasn’t athletic enough to do stuff like that? if he is athletic enough to do stuff like that at his size why wouldn’t he be able to play end?

bottom line for me is he’s freaky athletic enough to not have to fit into preconceived slots on d.

meant

show instead of should

Yes,

but, again, I think you are highly over valuing him. We don’t know any of this. SO, before you call people out for “de-valuing him”, you should be careful about valuing him too much.

whatever..

it’s all just projecting anyway. isn’t that what these threads are for? the simplest thing to do in these threads is say “that guy hasn’t proven anything yet”…well no shit, he hasn’t played a down. i get what you’re saying re: size, etc. i just disagree w/ it and think you’re undervaluing him. i don’t think you’re a dumbass, i don’t even know if you’re wrong.

we can keep going in circles on the merits of a fat kid but i think we’ve made our points.

Fair enough.

I’ll base my projections on what has happened before, you project yours on your knowledge. Have fun.

k, bro

Don't worry 40A

I’m sure he’ll push around those 320 lb offensive tackles like they were standing still at the college level.

Great talent, and a top tier DT for sure.

Great talent.

But not as good as he plays off. At least not yet. If he can shed some weight, he could be a ridiculous rushing end.

Research and facts actually disagrees with you.

BeeCaveHornFan - January 20, 2012 via mobile reply

So,

You are saying he’s like the honey badger?

He’s a fantastic DT… reality.

he's fantastic

anywhere on the d-line.

Based on what?

How many CFB games have you seen him play?

the same amount you have

johnny expert…i disagree that he’s not a d-end. i think he is. i think he’s capable of being dominant anywhere across the line.

Well,

history says that 300lb line prospects NOT EVEN IN COLLEGE YET don’t project as DE’s. But, according to your standards, he will be. We will see.

So is Alex Okafor,

That doesn’t mean he is not MUCH better as a DE.

MEjr is a DT… it’s simple. He’s a great one, but he’s a DT. I would take him in a heartbeat, but in 2 years he won’t be sniffing the DE position. Same with the NFL. The talent level is going to be much better in college than what MEjr saw in high school.

Correct,

and the Texas “scheme” doesn’t consist of 300 lb DE’s. Or are you suggesting that Manny change the scheme to fit one player? Ignoring the fact that we have developed players like Brian Orakpo, Henry Melton, Brian Robison, Sergio Kindle in the past?

The guy will be a serviceable DE, but will be a rediculous DT is the point.

Manny didn’t develop those players, and he certainly used big ends at Mississippi State.

Yea,

But our DE’s coach was still Oscar Giles… and he “developed” each of them.

Our DE’s are almost in between DE/LB as opposed to DE/DT.

MEjr is not so great that we need to create a scheme just to make sure he plays where he wants too… Manny told him that he would play DT, and that is the reality of the situation. He will be an NFL DT as well.

Fair point on how UT uses its defensive ends. Both defenses were obviously in the top 10 this season and are both on the rise. Think Texas returns a lot of guys too, right? (FSU returns 19 of 22 in two-deep).

We are good on the line,

but we need to bring in some speed rushers to get off the edge. It hurt us in some games this year not having that aspect of the game.

Okafor is a big guy at 270, and he’s more of a run stuffer than a true pass rushing threat.

However, with Jeffcoat and Okafor healthy we are as good as any team in the nation at DE.

Okafor came on toward the end of the year.

Before he is labeled a “run stuffer only”, I would like to see how he progresses with another year at his more natural position.

Yea,

It’s sad what Muschamp did to him. Asking a 5* DE to put on the lbs to play DT. It set him back a year, and a blind man could tell that Okafor didn’t translate to an NFL DT.

Poor decision.

Yep.

My uncle was incensed. It was a terrible, terrible decision and I can only imagine what Okafor could have done this year if the one before wasn’t wasted.

To Muschamp's defense

What were his other options? His #1 job was create the best defense for 2010 that he could. Okafor was one of the top 4 DL on the team. Given what he had to work with, I find it hard to fault him for that. Also keep in mind the success that Texas has had moving big DE’s inside (Lewis, Houston).

The real shame was that the underclass DT’s showed up fat and/or didn’t step up and earn that second DT spot.

Well,

Considering we lost early to UCLA, and we were absolutely manhandled in the middle he should have just put in other DT’s that were on the depth chart. Make them earn their spots and prepare for the 2011 season. We had plenty to choose from…

Plus, Houston and Lewis came to UT 30 lbs heavier than Okafor out of high school. Both were right at 270, as opposed to Okafors 230…

It was a horrible idea, and it cost a future NFL’er some $$$$ as well. And we still ended the season at 5-7.

We had plenty to choose from?

Cotton and Bible were way too out of shape to play. Howell was suffering from concussions. Daniels was a true freshman who couldn’t break the 2-deep in 2011 year and is now being tried at TE. Kriegal was hurt. That left one option, true freshman Ashton Dorsey.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree. From what I saw of Okafor his freshman year, I didn’t think he had the first step to be the DE he has become and he appeared to have the frame to carry 280 lbs.

To say it cost him money is ridiculous unless you think it would have made him leave this year.

Plenty -

Howell, Higgins, Dorsey, Cotton, Bible…

Howell played in a backup role for a good bit during the season. Hell, Eddie Jones had more weight on his frame than Okafor did… so did Sam Acho.

It cost him $$$ because it placed his development as an NFL DE behind a full year. It was a complete waisted year for him.

And a lot of blame can be put on Muschamp

that those guys came in overweight. If you are recruiting these kids you better be sure they are gonna get the job done in the weight room as well. And he didn’t. Does blame belong elsewhere? Sure.

Both of those guys you mention (lewis and houston) weighed a lot more. Okafor was outweighted all year at DT. It was a dumb decision. With all of the rotations, Okafor could have gotten plenty of snaps in his natural position. It was a bad decision, simple as that.

Hindsight is 20/20

I still think he rolled with the best he had.

Yeah,

I definitely disagree. Okafor would to. He made him gain weight and was STILL undersized playing DT, then he was forced to shed it to play his natural position. Just terrible.

I wouldn't be so sure

He got more playing time at DT in 2010 than he would have as a DE. You could also argue that playing DT last year helped him against the run and with his bull rush. Both of which looked very good this year.

I mean, how much better do you think could have played this year. He was an All-American for goodness sakes. You guys are acting like his career has followed the Kelson path.

Nope,

just saying he lost a year playing a position he will never have the body to play. It’s opportunity cost. He gave up refining his skills (learning to play the run and bull rush can easily be learned at DE too) at the DE position to learn a brand new position. It’s not as easy a transition as we, behind computers, would like to think.

He came out slow this year, and really came on by the end of the year. We will never know where he “could” be, but what could a year’s worth of coaching at his natural position got him? We will never know.

285 and 255 qualifies as big for DEs?

270-285 is about average for a SDE in a 4-3, I’d say.

Beergut - January 19, 2012 reply

In the NFL

the average weight of a starting DE is 272 lbs in a 4-3 defense. If you just figure strongside DE’s it’s higher at about 281. 285 is a big guy and not “average”, even in the NFL for a 4-3.

Of thirty-eight 4-3 DE’s (listed as starters), only 8 of them are over 280 and 17 are listed under 270.

In college, that # is even smaller…

Does that 272 figure include 3-4 ends like Ty Warren?

Nope,

Again – I believe that I specified 4-3 defenses in my comments.

However, it does include a 323 Aggie (Red Bryant), and a 305 lb ex Longhorn in Lamarr Houston which both combined for over 80 tackles and 2 sacks over the year…. both are DT’s for the majority of their careers and how they are listed as starting DE’s is beyond me. Especially since their stats resemble DT numbers as oppossed to DE’s.

burntorangehorn - January 21, 2012 reply

Houston was unfortunate enough to be caught in a system change

Oakland fired Cable, and of course fired Hue Jackson. I’d have a hard time wanting to be drafted by or sign with Oakland, because it seems like the staff is going to change almost annually (six head coaches in eight seasons). Some of that might stop now that the crypt keeper isn’t at the helm anymore. They have an actual GM now, and the guy appears to want to go about staffing a little differently.

Houston belongs in a three-man front in the NFL, I think. I could see him as an under tackle, but that’s not where he’s going to be a standout performer.

DId you guys actively persue Javonte Magee?

Just curious.

JaviLouis - January 19, 2012 reply

It seems like

he had an early offer, but once we landed the JUCO player we discontinued trying to get him. He translates to a DT as well.

I think Texas pulled back after the transcript issue with the DT from the same highschool last year

At least that seems about how the timing went.

He's a DT

waiting to happen. Do you ever see this guy playing DE in the NFL?

I understand that you “can play him at DE”, but he will make his $$$ at DT on Sundays.

UT is in a good position for DT’s right now, and for the foreseeable future. We need speed rushers….Orakpo, Kindle…

I would certainly take a Mario Edwards any day… but the reality is… this guy is a DT that hasn’t realized it yet.

Did you read what I wrote?

Welp - Edwards gone and DGB visiting Arky and Misery

I still say if Gail would offer his girlfriend, DGB would be a lock! Oh well, good luck to him, he is a class kid.

Snide Aside - January 19, 2012 reply

Article coming soon, but thought y’all would enjoy this.

% of HS commitments (non-kicker/punters) rated 4-stars or more.

85% Florida State
77% Florida
76% Texas
75% USC
64% Alabama
60% Oklahoma
59% Auburn
56% Notre Dame
55% Ohio State
52% Georgia

We have had more 3 star contributors than 5 star contributors

VY, Sergio were great – but no so much love for tray allen, Dwhite, GG, Eddie Jones etc. Find me some Colt, Achos, Muckelroys, Ben Als and Im cool.

Data shows overwhelmingly that the higher the ranking, the greater the chance of success for the player. As always, there are exceptions.

True dat

But for some reason here we have had the Lion share of exceptions. It could be just that we recruit 3 stars so well. Getting Colt, Muckelroy, OG, prolly both Achos to the NFL from 3 stars over the past few years is a statistical variation. Our 5 stars have really damaged the program lately. GG has put our QB situation into the dumper and we havent seen much out of a 5 star since Kindle and even he was only a player for a year or so. Maybe Malcom Brown promise will pan out and Gray will trump him.

Don't forget

Tony Hills Jr., Frank Okam, Curtis Brown, Alex Okafor, Mason Walters, Jackson Jeffcoat, Jordan Hicks, Malcolm Brown. I don’t really get this comment:

Our 5 stars have really damaged the program lately.

Texas has actually done very, very well with 5 stars since 2003, with the only real busts GG and Tray Allen (both of whom at least started in their careers).

Yes, Texas has had some 3-stars pan out, but for every McCoy, there is a Fitzhenry, Steve Moore, and Patrick Nkwopara. The %’s for 3 stars is much, much lower.

So of the 5 stars since 2013

I would consider 9 a success, 2 as busts and 1 incomplete due to injuries (E. Jones). So somewhere around 75%-82%.

Yeah, um...

Texas has 16 players in the 2012 class ranked 4+ stars.
FSU has 15 players in the WHOLE CLASS.

Texas has more 4+star talent.

Apparently you didn’t read the comment.

Incorrect

I stand by my statement.

Texas has more 4+ star recruits than FSU’s whole class.

If Team X only had 1 recruit, but that recruit was a 4 star, they would “rank” higher on your list with 100% of their recruits being 4+ star. But they would still have less 4+ star talent… even less than FSU.

Percentages!!!

AGHHHH get away!

Yep, they’re also taking more lesser players.

And that is the flip side of the debate

The more 3 or 2 stars you take, the less room you have for 4 and 5 stars down the line. Quality over quantity. It is an interesting way to look at things, kind of like the avg. stars for a class vs. the total points/ranking for a class.

And it matters because of the 85 limit.

Agree

But Texas is still killing it. Miami, on the other hand… (taking 18-19 3-stars…)

Texas is Killing FSU

You act like every player you sign from here on out will a 4* + … Maybe then you will have a class as good as Texas’! You would still need to find another 5* and at least 4 more 4* recruits from somewhere to even sniff the level that Texas is at RIGHT NOW. We have more 5* recruits, we have more 4* recruits.

And you’re taking more 3*s too…

while FSU can’t even manage that.

LOL, well played. You guys should have alerted me to this guy.

You might at least admit,

that looking at just percentages kind of masks the fact that volume matters too. Not that recruiting rankings and success are so noiselessly correlated that any of this matters (good is good, making distinctions between classes at this level is kind of dumb) but all things considered, you’d probably want to examine number along with percentage of quality players.

I mean, at least I would.

no way man. Put their 11 4*+ recruits against our 16 and they whip us every time. Man I coulda been a math major at FSU.

Wow. Your argument is that you have more 4 stars so that is better, ignoring making it apples-to-apples and seeing the rate or percentages of 4 stars per each class. If FSU had more scholarships available per NCAA rules FSU would still end up having better rated talent on average, but FSU is expected to take about 20 kids this cycle because there aren’t very many departing seniors (see Bowden, Bobby). But yeah, good luck with that.

got it, having more 4 and 5 stars is WORSE. OK thanks for setting the record straight on that one.

If PSU could get a class with as many 4 or 5 star recruits as Texas, then why don’t they. If scholarship limits are the only problem why offer any 3* at all? Why not just give those spots to all of those 4 and 5 star prospects FSU is turning away due to Bobby Bowden and that darned NCAA.

Wow. This guy is on a roll.

You have no idea!

I just started a college and we will be recruiting 1 player a year. Luckily it will be a 4*+ so our team will be 100% made of 4*+ and winning the national championship every year!

I like this guy!

What, about his argument, is incorrect?

utexas87 - January 19, 2012 reply

Texas on the rise...

“Just because one or two elephants are sick, it won’t stop the circus.” -Forgot who said it, but I like it.

Good luck to you guys, best of luck to Texas! Hooked Horns

Los Longhorns de Tejas - January 19, 2012 via mobile reply

What is this rumor about DGB?

Someone keeps mentioning that DGB has eliminated Texas from his list….I can’t find ANYTHING about it.

Pounds - January 19, 2012 reply

DGB will

eliminate Texas sooner or later. That is a Missouri/Arkansas race IMO.

He stated at the begining that he wanted to stay close to home/family and he will. We don’t have a snowballs chance in hell to get DGB IMO.

I was more confident in MEjr since he is from the state of Texas.

I can tell you now that

Mizzou doesn’t have a chance, regardless of Pinkel’s lame ass helicopter visit yesterday.

Pounds - January 19, 2012 reply

Interesting that Mizzou

just signed Darius White at WR. I wonder if he has ANY relationship with DGB at all. Rumor was D.White is the one that was negative recruiting Texas, and the recruit was DGB. Did they bond?

Either way, I’m not too worried about it. I would love DGB, and he seems like a hell of a good kid, but you can’t win’em all. It’s even harder to win the out of state kids with no tie’s to UT.

I will wish him well regardless of where he goes (unless it’s OU.)

If they bonded - they can have him

Think DGB is a classier kid than that.

I'm starting to think

A lot of these ‘recruits’ are just looking for a free weekend in Austin.

Caradoc - January 19, 2012 reply

Very True

… definitely not a bad place to be.

Who in their right mind would not take that visit?

I know Nole women are epic, but I’ve been told Texas women are something else (until they get older and all that fatty food starts to take its toll)

JaviLouis - January 19, 2012 reply

Rermaining Spots

Any chance on brining Devonte Fields or Javonte Magee for the DE spot? Hell, maybe even bring in Arik Armstead, who showed late interest.

I feel like we have numbers at all the major spots with the exception of TE. At this point, I would rather just get the best available for remaining spots, whether it is Trey Williams, LaDarrell McNeil, or Bralon Addison, instead of briing in Hobbs just to take a TE.

I know I am beating a dead horse at this point, but I would rather Mack just bring in a Juco or transfer QB for one of the last spots. I really feel this is the spot that is going to come back to haunt the Horns and Mack at some point next year…

4horns - January 19, 2012 reply

I’d love to see a QB with some experience brought in as well but Mack promised the Brewer’s there wouldn’t be another one in the class unless McCoy transferred. I’m glad that Mack doesn’t look like he’ll be breaking that promise. People can hate on us all they want but we don’t cheat and we don’t jerk players around the same way so many schools do and I’m proud of that

cade21 - January 19, 2012 reply

Gotta ? Cade

Not trying to argue, but if Mack made this promise to Brewer. How is it not entightlement that he is promising. Just wondering?

Burnedsince61 - January 20, 2012 reply

Meant entitlement

Burnedsince61 - January 20, 2012 reply

I would love to end with

Fields, Magee or McNeil. That would be just fine with me.

Magee isn't really a need

He’s less of a DE long-term than MEjr. IMO.

We really need a pass rushing DE.

Magee,

Yep, he does fit the bill for yet another DT.

What happened to DE’s? Seems like a down year for true DE’s this year in Texas. Atleast we got the states best in Rigeway.

My first reax is that the 2012 recruiting year is ending with a thud.

But it doesn’t take long to realize that it only feels that way because we’re still in the game! I love this new philosophy where we recruit up to signing day (and beyond?) instead of wrapping it up so early. We may not get all of them, but we’ll get our share and keep other schools on the defensive. So while it would have been great to snag MEJr., it’s still nice to be in the running this late in the process. Nice job, Mack and staff!

JoeT63 - January 19, 2012 reply

Definitely something

that we will have to get used to.

All we need is any

early commitment from Raulerson to make everything OK again.

Where we definitely need a stud WR like DGB, another DT isn’t at the top of my list.

But, again – I would take both DGB and MEjr in a heartbeat. In that order since we really, really, need a WR that can be a game changer.

I'm just glad

that the coaching staff is actually going after who they think are the best players, instead of the ones who are sure to commit, like Mack has seemed to do in the past.

burnt40 - January 19, 2012 reply

I agree

bring on Raulerson!!!!!!!!!

Nailed it

One last comment about Mario Edwards Jr.

… and then I’m done.

THANK YOU for negative recruiting the shit out of OU, and for speaking the truth about that armpit called Norman, OK.

For that alone, I will always be on your side. Good luck!